Why Slowing Down Creates Real Growth

Rohaan Kaul (00:01.257)
Hello everyone, welcome back to another episode of wisdom over hustle. And I'm your host Rohan, the founder of ZAVOPS And I truly believe today is going to be a dose of wisdom over all the marketing stuff that we've been talking over the past few days. This is going to be a truly, truly inspirational session, which I personally believe so because I have gone through this process.

So today on my guest panel is Shivani Lohia. She's into pranic healing. She's an internationally certified pranic healer as well as an instructor for pranic healing, which is again internationally certified. She's been doing meditation for last 25 years and last 12 years she's been actively into healing people using pranic healing. So welcome Shivani.

Atmanamaste!

Shivani Lohia (01:00.32)
Atmanahusse Rohan. Thank you for having me over.

Rohaan Kaul (01:04.137)
Yes, so thank you for taking time out. You know, I know you've been busy with a lot of things. mean, a lot of people to help, lot of earning, a lot of good karma and spreading it over the world. So Shivani.

I know from reading through your profile that you are a computer science engineer. We've had many interesting stories of techies becoming marketers. I'm personally one of those. Techies becoming entrepreneurs, techies becoming cooks and a lot of things. did product healing happen? How did this journey take place?

Shivani Lohia (01:50.322)
That's a very interesting one because it's quite an anti thesis for most people. So my husband was the one who introduced me to pranic healing. He was that time a venture capitalist and we were dating. And one of the times when I went for my work, I was also doing corporate training. So that would require me to be on my feet for at least seven to eight hours delivering trainings. And

One of the times my health was really bad and he started healing me that time he was based out of Mumbai and instantaneously I felt better and I was like, wow, okay, this is exciting. This is so fascinating. Usually it's the wives who, you know, introduce this thing to the husbands in my case. That's why I said it was an anti-thesis and I was curious also because you know, my husband's hardcore number background.

me hardcore engineering background. for you can imagine it's like it's it is a whole thing is anti thesis because it's like, wow, you're from science. How do you believe in something that you do not see? But in fact, if you see, we know science is all about studying the invisible and then drawing from your research, from what your lessons are from it. And you extract and that is energy, isn't it?

So that's how I got into pranic healing. I used to see effective results and then just as a curious practitioner like yourself, like I was curious, I wanted to learn, I wanted to know more about it. And before I knew it, it was so transformative. It really had a 180 degree transformation for me. And here I am as a pranic healing instructor and healing people day in, day out.

Rohaan Kaul (03:42.101)
So I would like our audience to know a little bit more about pranic healing. if you could tell more about it that it's because you know since the word is about healing so everybody equates that with you know that it's only for people you know who want to help other people or do healing. So just

you know, throw some more light on it because for our audience to understand that it's actually meant for everyone.

Shivani Lohia (04:13.058)
So interestingly, people do take healing all the time in the sense when you go to a doctor, doctor is also healing you. He's using, he or she is using medicine. Certain chemicals to bring, to suppress certain symptoms, bring about certain results. And the medicines, if you see, for example, take a case of somebody's having a severe headache. They take a medicine. Now, part of the chemical in the medicine is also

to help you feel sleepy like an analgesic component is there in it and so that person can sleep, rest and get better. But modern day, like you said, the hustlers, they would pop a medicine and they'll get back to work. That's not the purpose of the medicine. So even the medical science is working on the principle of that the body knows how to heal itself. You have to give it sufficient rest, nutrition, everything so that it can heal.

Now what a healer is doing is it's working on this energy field around the person who's removing a block. Now think about it that if in your house there is a pipeline which is blocked, obviously the water flow will be affected. You'll call in somebody, a specialist, they'll come and remove the block and the water flows starts. That's exactly what a healer is doing. And it's

People who sometimes are very rigid with the idea of energy, I usually ask them like just a few hundred years ago when electricity was not a discovered phenomena, people were superstitious about it. They would say, no, there's no such thing. But its manifestations were always there. Even today, you can't really see electricity. You can see its manifestations only. Same for energy. There is a manifestation. Why do

We meet certain people and we feel like, I want to be in touch with this person. Whereas otherwise you want to be like, like, I don't want to meet this person again. I don't know why, but I don't like them. what's that all about? Energy, right? Same for food. So it's there, but it's just that it's not in our awareness, in our cognition that, there is, we're dealing with energy at all times.

Rohaan Kaul (06:10.448)
Thank you.

Rohaan Kaul (06:20.218)
Bye.

Rohaan Kaul (06:33.112)
Right, true. mean, one of the reasons I can personally relate with that is, you know, I had this like while I was having an active lifestyle in terms of, you know, playing badminton on a pretty regular basis, right. And, you know, I had this constant lower back issue, right. And I mean, given and given the fact that, you know,

that it's not something that you know, I didn't have a sedentary lifestyle what people say like you know, if you have that I have had a very active lifestyle, right? Which is of course did come up in the healing sessions also that but I still had that issue, right? And it was basically the problem was basically the basic chakra like you know, there was issues with that, right?

So in my case, I underwent healing personally on my own as well as used your health. So there are things like this, is not explained in our cognition. There are sometimes injuries or things that we carry. Again, in my example, I said, the lower back issue.

gone now, but there are certain other things which you know medicine at times is not able to solve. I not saying that I mean, think so the pranic healing says that medicine is not an alternative. It works in conjunction with it's complementary which was one of the things that okay, know, it's not debunking a lot of things. But again, like how do people

Shivani Lohia (08:16.495)
We are complimentary, yes.

Rohaan Kaul (08:28.597)
for people to understand that certain issues are a culmination of a of things that are happening. How do we come to a realization?

Shivani Lohia (08:39.183)
Good question. Something like in your case, There's so many times there are emotions, long standing emotions. Abhi, the problem with emotions is that our education system for a good few decades has taught us to not acknowledge it. I mean, how many times we still hear parents telling their children, stop crying.

You're a bad girl or a bad boy, you know, if you're crying and you know, you're getting angry. So it's a very ingrained program in our society to, you know, to completely detach us from our own feeling self. There is a part of me that feels in fact, feelings are so important, right? Otherwise, if you're not feeling the pain, you will continue to the point that you'll deteriorate your body. What is the harm in

of feeling things, but the entire education system is designed in a way that kind of dehumanizes our whole emotional processes, our thinking processes, which are even our thoughts, our decisions are based on how we feel. That's the difference between why someone would go to a particular restaurant over and over again.

versus some other one. Tell me this, why would people like to go to a JW Marriott or a Ritz? The staff treats you really well. They make you feel good, right? And the person who's waiting on your table will sometimes even strike a conversation with you. And you feel good when you get out of that place versus another Darshani. You go there, you go, you eat, you finish your work. They don't even care. And they'll be in a rush to...

Rohaan Kaul (10:10.456)
Right.

Shivani Lohia (10:26.959)
pull your plates also. So before you finish, it's all about how you are made to feel. So it is an important aspect of it. Now, for most of the people I've seen in my experience, if they're going through a severe pain, which is not going away with medication, usually the reason is some long standing, unaddressed emotional

psychological cause, which is now like the body is rebelling and saying, boss, you have to listen to me. You have to give me attention. And it's interesting because like you said, the first medical diagnosis is, you might be having a sedentary lifestyle. But in your case, that wasn't true at all. Far from it. You're super active and you're super productive. But

Even psychology admits this. If you see the science of psychology, they also say that very often people might not be using harmful substances to just look away from things that are bothering them, but they'll go into something which is seemingly healthy, excessive workout, know, excessive work. Now there is no taboo in our society for workaholism.

Rohaan Kaul (11:40.781)
Boom.

Shivani Lohia (11:51.652)
But can you imagine the word itself is like alcoholism? So it is addiction, which means somewhere it's unhealthy, somewhere you're not addressing what needs to be addressed. And that's where a healer can help you. Now, as a healer, I would remove those emotional blockages and gently guide the person to look into what is it? Why are they, you know, what are they trying to avoid? And because they

Rohaan Kaul (11:55.328)
Hmm, right.

Shivani Lohia (12:21.049)
pain aspect of it has been removed. It's like watching a movie. You're not the movie, but you're looking at this situation and like, okay, yeah, you're right. This is a problem. I should be talking to this person. I should resolve this matter. And then the healing happens even deeper. will never, the problem will never return.

Rohaan Kaul (12:40.801)
Right. True. So now coming back to this thing, I've noticed there's been a lot of conversations or most of the time the content or influencers talk a lot about dopamine, right? You know that we're getting addicted to dopamine. But there's one hormone for which we don't talk a lot, which is basically cortisol. And why I'm coming to that is because the kind of

founders are addicted to it. So how does that impact the cortisol levels? I mean, how does that impact your body on all levels?

Shivani Lohia (13:28.195)
Very good question. Because like you very well said cortisol works with its very near and dear friend called adrenaline. And adrenaline rush is a rush, right? It's addictive. I mean, you have been a biker, right? So you know what I mean. with, so it's a game. It's it's a very

Rohaan Kaul (13:37.632)
Mmm, right.

Rohaan Kaul (13:43.17)
Ha

Shivani Lohia (13:55.195)
tricky game between cortisol and adrenaline because there is a rush. You see this hustle culture where everybody wants to do multiple things. And I keep asking people, how can you function for long enough when you are trying to do multiple things at the same time? If you have boxed your timing, okay, this is my work hour. This is what I'm gonna do extra. This is for my...

Rohaan Kaul (14:05.687)
Right.

Shivani Lohia (14:24.438)
recreation, that's balance. if somebody is, it's like, you know, suppose just humor me. If I tell you, you know, count one to say seven or one to 10, how would you do that? Okay. One, two, three, four, five, so on, so forth. Then I'll say, okay, do the alphabets. Then you'd say A, B, C, D, E, so on, so forth. Now, if somebody tells you alternate it, it's a one, eight,

2B, 3C, 4D, 5E, 6F. You see there is a slowing down that happens. When you are doing multiple things your body, your brain is physiologically just switching. Now this done over a long period of time creates a certain stress and cortisol is that stress hormone.

Now, of the problems that happens is when this stress hormone is through the roof is increased in your body, it starts leading to fun, physical ailments, issues, health related issues, and even your brain functioning isn't at its optimum level. So while some youngsters, you know, and even influencers really are of massively propagating the whole idea of a hustle culture.

I'm not sure how long they can sustain it and are they sustaining it in a healthy way? Are they devoid from use of drugs and alcohol to overcome this stress? What are they doing to help their own mind, their brain to overcome this extreme amount of stress which is compounded with the joy of adrenaline rush because you feel very accomplished, right?

Rohaan Kaul (16:16.041)
Right.

Shivani Lohia (16:16.174)
You feel like, I can do so many things at the same time. I do too. If my day is busy and I'm doing 10 things, I feel accomplished, but that's your brain tricking you to something. It's good for one day in a week or two days in a week, but after some time, your body starts wearing out, your mind starts wearing out.

Rohaan Kaul (16:36.991)
Right, because again coming back to the whole conversation around cortisol because whether it's you know people think it's only about what we are talking about is work related. No, it is urban sport like for example my inclination or my physical activity was very dominant on badminton which was again a very high cortisol

activity like you know again with the work and everything right so now that that so what is the balance then right you know again the question is that like i said i feel in my head that okay i'm doing badminton it's good like you know i'm doing some physical activity whether on a day-to-day basis it's slotted in my everyday schedule but again it is not i mean if you look at it

It's not balanced because it's again, my cortisol is already high, add to that more cortisol and I feel great. Like it's amazing. Like you said, it's a rush. You know, you get that. But what's the balance then in that scenario? Like for somebody, you know, who wants to, you know, we talk just about work-life balance, but there is like, you know, the balance inside your body.

Shivani Lohia (17:58.971)
within your mind.

Rohaan Kaul (18:00.038)
everything like what is that balance like in terms of know activity everything.

Shivani Lohia (18:06.369)
Right. Yeah, so fair point. And thank you for bringing that up, because very often, like I also mentioned, like, you know, we think of only work and life balance and seemingly balanced activities, recreational activities. It's it has to be balanced, something that brings you to stillness, that brings you to calmness. Like, and that is what we call as inner strength. And that is

going to be always missing because their mind is on a chase. Everything that makes you feel like an achiever, you will keep chasing that. That's the psyche your gaming, the businesses are using. It makes you feel achieve in what? Like literally, I'm sorry to all the gamers out there, but no, I'm not.

Think about it in a virtual world, in a virtual life, you achieved something. And when you come back to the real world, when you close your gaming and everything, they have that sense of emptiness. And that is scary. That's why people do stupid things with their life. And that stillness is where the meditation bit stands.

Rohaan Kaul (19:23.199)
Hmm.

Shivani Lohia (19:34.524)
comes in, that's where it steps in. It's great that you work eight hours a day, you're accommodating your physical fitness, you're taking time out for your family. But that so-called me time, which is confused now as time on social media maybe, or binge watching on Netflix to so-called unwind, it's not unwinding you.

Rohaan Kaul (19:55.039)
Hmm.

Shivani Lohia (20:02.989)
It like you said, it's still keeping you on a dopamine rush or a adrenaline rush. So somewhere people need to understand that meditation is not for some saints or a sadhu. It's for people like you and me who are dealing with a lot of things, a lot more than people just a few decades ago were dealing with. We, whether we admit it or not, we are hustling a lot like

Rohaan Kaul (20:27.239)
Right.

Shivani Lohia (20:32.177)
I don't know about, I don't know, did you do 10 different classes in your childhood? I used to have one tuition, one art class, maybe one sports related, that's it, rest was free time, have fun. I don't know this generation has any idea about what's that like. Parents are like that, you know, they want their children to be fitting in this world to be, you know, outshining everybody. So, so where is that?

stillness that moment of being with that one person you have to spend your entire life with you yourself

Rohaan Kaul (21:13.874)
True. So now that you brought up the point of meditation, I want to debunk something that a lot of people believe that meditation is all about just closing your eyes and you you're going into this state of silence or concentration and chanting you know some like OM which is most common that people use OM for this and there's a science behind it too.

I think so we can dig deep into that, that what exactly is meditation, right? Like you said, it's not for people, common misconsumption that people who have given up things in life, who want to be disconnected from this world or Sadhu, maybe not exactly Sadhu but from a materialistic point of view also.

I mean, there are people who are materialistic at the same time they profess meditation, right? So what let's dig deeper into what exactly is the definition of meditation and you know, how come how people like of course the hustlers require it but other than that too, like why everybody needs it on a day to day basis.

Shivani Lohia (22:32.837)
Good question. Yeah, meditation is definitely not just for hustlers, not just for people who are religious. It's definitely not just for, you know, a handful of people. It's for anybody who wants certain sanity in their life, certain kind of stability in their life. What it is not is definitely stopping of thoughts. Many people confuse and are scared of doing meditation. They're like, I get too many thoughts when I close my eyes. Of course you will.

Rohaan Kaul (22:59.614)
Right. That was me.

Shivani Lohia (23:01.477)
just because you close your eyes. Yeah, just because you close your eyes, your thoughts won't stop. Only your external stimulation is what stops. Right? So your thoughts, your mind is constantly creating it. Somebody said, I mean, I remember Robin Sharma's book saying something on the lines of 60,000 thoughts a day. In today's day and age, I'm sure it is a lot more because we are bombarded with thoughts from social media, news, people who interact with, we have an overload of information.

just like we're in this deluge of information. And I remember we discussed about one type about cognitive dissonance, you know, if a person who is able to think is smart enough to discern, you're like, my God, is this the truth? Is this the truth? And people on the most influencers are taking advantage of that. You know, an influencer will say and say, I, you know,

Rohaan Kaul (23:31.261)
you

Rohaan Kaul (23:38.951)
Right?

Shivani Lohia (23:57.735)
breakdown certain myths about this thing that I will teach you how to be free of anxiety in two minutes or five minutes.

It's good to captivate the audience, but really, mean, medically, it's not possible. Energetically, I can tell you it's not possible. And we all know it from experience. You can have relief. But nobody wants without masala things. We all like masala, there are charts, kind of stuff. So, know, if I tell you a plain, hey, being present with yourself is...

That's fine. You tell me something better. Like, you know, how can I meditate? How can I be successful? Like be still, be within, allow yourself to get those answers, be free of these thoughts. Okay, how do I get to this, you know, get out of my this thought process? So there has to be a mechanism wherein I will just bring to you which you have practiced this meditation.

It helps in the initial journey to start with something that's guided rather than just sitting, closing your eyes and calling it dhyan. Firstly, meditation has two aspects to it. Dhyan and dharana. Most of the times, dhyana or dhyan is misunderstood. People think of it as focus. Focus or concentration is dharana and we have almost mastered that art.

If you don't know what I'm talking about, ask your daughter to take her eyes off the screen. Absolute definition of focus is children on screen. You you talk to them, you say something. It's not like they're avoiding you. They're so focused that they do not know what's happening around them. And it happens to us also. Let's not just blame children.

Rohaan Kaul (25:48.06)
Boom.

Rohaan Kaul (25:54.812)
I think so in the office I can relate with that. In offices with my teams, I got to know this that they have figured out a way how to get approvals from me. If there is a task or a problem at hand and I am zoned out on that, everybody knew that this is the time just go and ask anything.

Shivani Lohia (26:18.338)
We should ask your team to do twin hearts, their heart should become better, they should take advantage.

Rohaan Kaul (26:18.415)
and we

Rohaan Kaul (26:27.37)
When did I approve? Yeah, sir, when you were in that particular, we were talking about that and you were focused, they won't say you were focused, they were saying you were solving that problem, when you were solving that particular client's problem, at that point of time I'd come and ask you when you got this done. So so Khan,

Shivani Lohia (26:47.338)
Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Focus is something we're still trained about, but awareness, nobody taught us that. And awareness is scary because you will meet the very thoughts you've been trying to avoid through focus. But when there is a balance of the two and you have a mechanism to flush out these excessive thoughts,

It's much easier to get into that state of that balance of focus, balance of awareness. And you can have a deep moment of stillness. And that does not need to be hours long. Even a couple of minutes is enough. You can I'm sure you've experienced that kind of clarity that comes in that moment of stillness, because that's all that we need. We don't need to meditate for hours like see.

is like, you know, the actors and the actresses, go and they gym for like eight, 10 hours. People like you and me don't need to do that. So while the saints who are trying to achieve Samadhi for them, they may need to do it for several hours. You and I just need 15 to 20 minutes. And that is sufficient to get you gathered, integrated. So part of the meditation is integrating your mind, your emotions.

with your physical senses to create a sense of what when I say the word stillness think of it like a placid lake where the water is completely still when that is the case you can see at the bottom what's there at the bottom of the lake rather than turbulent water so our emotions when we are in an emotion state when we are problem solving when we are going through life are

Rohaan Kaul (28:13.162)
.

Shivani Lohia (28:38.171)
emotional state, our mental state is like that turbulent water. When you sit and meditate, it's like bringing that water to complete stillness, being able to see, this is the root cause and you find your solutions. Whether it is students, whether it is a housewife, whether it is a working person, whether it's a sports person and all sports practitioners, the best of them today, if you see they're heavily into meditation. The reason is this. It makes you more

accomplished then our mind tends to believe. We think activity is everything. It's a balance of activity with stillness.

Rohaan Kaul (29:16.13)
So let's say how would you define a balanced day like we know with everything like again coming back lot of emphasis on physical activity right given I mean glut or you know overdose of content or advice around

physical activity, right? Which is good. I'm not saying it's bad, but it's not balanced, right? So in terms of achieving that balance, given how we work and function, most of the audience that I deal with or the people who would be watching this are people who are constantly making decisions and they're in high pressure environments dealing with a lot of things, right?

So for them, what would be like a balanced day in terms of activity, what are the things they can inculcate, which would say, okay, fine, that would actually help them to achieve mental, spiritual, physical balance, emotional balance, everything that is required for functioning of the body without long term impact.

Shivani Lohia (30:33.723)
Right. My one stop solution for these things is you may might have guessed it's a twin hearts meditation. It's really that simple because see, we in this meditation, what are we doing? We are activating the heart. So you are getting out of that stress state into that state which builds serotonin. Now serotonin is a piece.

hormone, the hormone which kicks in when you make very good decisions, it helps you make very good decisions, is the hormone that kicks in when you're a state of peace. So if you see when a man and a woman or anybody, two lovers, when they meet for the first time, there's a surge of hormones and that's oxytocin. And then meeting them again and again, having a good time with them is dopamine.

That's what we call as honeymoon period, right? And after some time, this oxytocin and dopamine starts coming down and then the serotonin kicks in. And then you're able to see things for as they are. The person not as the image of that rosy color. So why am I talking about this is because in this meditation, you activate your heart, you're already setting in more of the serotonin.

Rohaan Kaul (31:46.03)
Right.

Shivani Lohia (31:58.901)
Then you activate the crown. The crown center is an energy center. So these are chakras which are basically energy centers. They work like pumping stations. They energize certain aspects of not only our physical body but also psychology. Right? So the crown chakra directly energizes the brain. Now one of the things that happen is with decision fatigue or mental exhaustion which sets in and people are usually not even aware of.

is that they get so exhausted that from if you know even if the child or somebody asks them hey you know A or B and they'll just snap because it's already they've reached a limit of how much their brain can function. Now when you're doing the twin hearts meditation you're energizing the brain and you bless the earth. Now this activity what it does is it's like you're becoming a channel.

There's a waterfall of energy that is flowing through you. Now, when that happens, think of it. You suppose a biking. I'll take your biking example, since you love biking. You're on the road. OK, there's muck and somebody's you know, there was a dirty road with wet water and muck and somebody splashes that on you. You stop somewhere. There is a nice waterfall, clean water. You go into it. All the muck. You stand under the waterfall and all the muck is washed off.

In this meditation, something like that happens to your thoughts, your emotions, all the stuff that you've been collecting from others with your interaction or your own generated. All of this gets flushed out because you're blessing the earth. And when you do that, then you sit for stillness. It becomes relatively easy rather than just going and sitting there, like you said, like chanting certain mantra.

It's good, but it's not very productive. I have a very strong bias towards the law of economy, minimum input, maximum output. That's why I like Twin Hearts Meditation. 20 minutes? And there is a stark difference. I'm sure you have that experience too, and maybe you should share it with others since you are a founder and your life does involve a lot of

Rohaan Kaul (34:00.034)
Right.

Rohaan Kaul (34:09.144)
and

Shivani Lohia (34:25.48)
decision-making and not just regular decisions, right? These are high-stake decisions at times. And what I have seen is, because I do go to different companies also, teaching them this meditation, helping them with the healings, everybody said that their productivity has gone through the roof. We do this for students in colleges and schools. There was a school.

where children from lower economic backgrounds would be there. So they have a lot of stressors at home. And these students were, many of them were scoring below 60%. And many, quite a few were even not clearing the exam. And with one year program, I kid you not, the principal called up to tell us that we want to continue with this program because we are seeing the...

All of our students this time, none of them have flunk. They all were above 60 % and many have gone above 75%. So this is something like I've seen that with regular practice can have so many benefits. This is just one of them which I'm sharing with you.

Rohaan Kaul (35:43.926)
I know, I mean, I don't know people are not aware of the fact of decision fatigue. Like, I mean, I have made so many changes because of that. Once I realized that, you know, I think there's a theory that goes around that you could make seven good decisions in a day, right? And that comes from the fact decision fatigue itself, like, you know, what you said.

the hormones, serotonin, all of it. And that's the reason why I've cut out a lot of things from my life. Like in terms of people say discipline is all about a rigorous time table sort of a thing. Not necessarily. It is not just a time table, but it is a lot of things that are sort of a rigor or boring at times, downright boring, but it is very important in the sense to function.

in other aspects of life. Like for example, don't, I think I've told you my wardrobe is now yellow to white, right? So I don't make a decision. I mean, and there are lot of people like Mark Zuckerberg, Dr. Vishal Sikha, we've talked, Steve Jobs, all of it. So I don't need to take a decision. Same goes with my eating also, like because started gaming and

I have a trainer who gave me a diet regimen. I love the fact that I don't have to take a decision. My co-care is not going to ask me, what do prepare today? But you have to be at peace with the fact that you are okay with that same boring thing over and over and over again because it does not like if you are going to take those decisions also, it's going to cut down on the number of good decisions that you can take in other aspects. So it's basically

You know, again, it was a decision to make sure that I take good decisions where it is required. Right.

Shivani Lohia (37:44.149)
You said it. You said it. If only we can overcome our own need to not have boring. So boring is good. Boring is so good. It'll make your brain go into a creative mode. It will make your brain go. But that consistency is what pays off. you just, you know, like I was about to say, yeah, you're a Mark Zuckerberg, and then in making, if you've already gone to the wardrobe level.

then you'll go into the decision level which you already have. Like you said, it just makes perfect sense. You have only that much pool of energy in a day. find a way to increase your pool of energy. So even when you do, and that's the impact of energy, when your pool of energy increases, one thing that comes with it is the clarity. So you will know, okay, this is where I'm gonna put my energy in, this is not worth it.

Just let it be. So you will pick your battles so-called battles wisely.

Rohaan Kaul (39:01.961)
I don't want to this

Rohaan Kaul (39:17.173)
very enticing, very attractive like it hits so many hormones like your dopamine, adrenaline, lot of things but I don't want to this, I I don't want this. Like it's basically because of that it's able to make those decisions. So coming back, how can somebody start? Like I mean in terms of meditation, like you said meditation of twin hearts 15-20 minutes, right?

And I think so people will realize that if they get to know about Pranic healing and more that they will get to know that it's not only about meditation. It is a lot of emphasis on physical activity also. We talk about the workout. We talk about also me time in a productive way like you know how the inner reflections part of it. Right. So how do we start like anybody wanting to switch or

Rohaan Kaul (40:22.088)
I don't know how to it. There so many thoughts and things are I what to do.

Ultimately, I have realized that a of are... I mean, fundamental pillar is same. Everybody has just evolved a little bit on top of that. coming back, where and how can somebody start easily? Not... I mean, again, because if it becomes difficult, not sustainable. Like something that is sustainable and that you and me, anybody who's got a very busy lifestyle...

how they can adopt it.

Shivani Lohia (41:19.145)
Yeah, like I have a term for those people who find so many things in the market. It's called spiritual shoppers. Yeah, that's another kind of a dopamine going the next new thing that is there. But, you know, it's very important we pick things that suit us. And one of the easiest way like you said, like your question is about how one can start one of the easiest way we can

that everybody does is the breath awareness or what we call is deep abdominal breathing with emptied intention. Because with your physiology, you change your energy, you change your psyche, both, right? And you hear these coaches also, some of the best coaches in the world, they also talk about, they talk about from physiology to psychology and so on and so forth.

Rohaan Kaul (41:56.948)
Thanks.

Shivani Lohia (42:14.889)
we go reverse. Why? From energy to physical aspect because energy is subtle so it's easier to change. Physical aspect takes longer time but having said that something as simple as when you inhale you expand your abdomen hold your breath for a moment and as you exhale you contract your abdomen like a deflation of a balloon and hold your breath and if you do this 15 rounds of this

already there'll be a lot of clarity, there'll be a lot of stillness, a lot of healing starts happening. So we do this experiment in our pranic healing workshops where people come in and when they have this way of the technology of scanning and feeling the energy, they'll come in, they'll start feeling the energy. Mostly people have the energy four inches to eight inches of their energy field around them. And after they do...

this deep abdominal breathing for 15 cycles or so, already their energy levels increased to about two to three meters. And it's not just that they've increased the energy levels. It's like think of it that you're running on a low fuel tank in your car. You fill in the fuel.

but you also do some kind of a service to clean up the windshield and you you clean up the scar and so, and the tire. So it works smoothly. So just by doing 15 cycles of deep abdominal breathing already increases a person's energy levels. And you can see this, you can try this. I invite everybody who's watching this podcast. All you have to do is, you know, just sit back, relax with your spine erect, connect your tongue to the palate.

So just if this is your tongue and this is the roof of your mouth, just curl your tongue slightly and connect it to the roof of the mouth. Now this completes certain energy circuits in our body. Start with that and then inhale hold and exhale hold. When you inhale, let your abdomen expand. When you exhale, let your abdomen contract and do this for 15 cycles. So one inhalation holding, exhalation holding is one cycle.

Shivani Lohia (44:36.192)
and you repeat this for 15 times, they will start seeing the shift in their energy. They'll start experiencing that much sought after mental peace. So they can start with that. Second is like we discussed the Twin Hearts meditation. I can share some of the online available link which one can watch practices. It's a guided meditation.

where we bless the earth, become a channel, lot of energy flows through us and helps us pull us out. So think of yourself, think of this, there is a muck and this your favorite toy or balloon is stuck in it. You pull it out. That's what the meditation on Twin House is doing for you. It's raising your vibration.

So if the problems are at this vibration, your negative thoughts, your worry, stress, anxiety, everything's at this level and you are pulling yourself out, you have a vantage, right? Because you are not at this level. You're able to see things better. You're zoomed out of the problem and you can practice that. So breath work, the meditation on twin hearts and healing.

It's not that I promote healing because I heal, but more because I personally have experienced if I'm having a difficulty and I take healing, I feel better and not just better. Like there is a before and an after. I might be feeling very tired or depressed or low and one healing and I'm back on my feet. And in a healthy way, it's not

Rohaan Kaul (46:24.754)
Thank

Shivani Lohia (46:26.002)
substance induced, it's not coffee or tea induced or severe workout. Even sometimes there have been points in my life where I really struggled with even working out. Getting out of the bed was a win. And that's when healing really helped me. Like it changed who I am as a person. If you ask any psychologist or a psychiatrist, once they put a person on anti-anxiety, antidepressant pills, they...

They take it that this person has to take this for all their life. And I have lost count of the number of cases I have healed, including my own, the kind of transformation that happens because once the energy is gone, it's like the virus is removed from your system. Once the virus is gone, of course your system functions better. We all know that. Something like that.

Rohaan Kaul (47:18.177)
Yes, right. now very interesting question that you know, off recently there's been a lot of debate 70 hours work week, 90 hours work week. we kind of I think so though this is this is something with the 70s, 80s, 90s raised in that particular era is productivity or being successful

you know, that's being busy, that's counted, that's actually celebrate, right? And people who want to take a back seat or people who want to go slow or, you know, who fine with, you know, like I said, being boring, being slow and, you know, getting into this

Shivani Lohia (47:55.392)
Thanks. Yeah, celebrated, true.

Rohaan Kaul (48:16.15)
race or they just want to leave things they're made to feel guilty right how do we like how do i

Stay away from that. okay fine. I mean, what I've done or this is what I want to go ahead with and how do I let the negativity or this, that, you know, how people are talking about it, like, stay away from that. And I'm not talking about that being with something like people tend to say, okay, you know, you're talking about being a slob or lazy. No, no, no, I'm not talking about that. I'm just...

Talking about that I don't want to be involved with this hyperdrive, overdrive, high productivity, know that kind of a this thing more at all times.

Shivani Lohia (49:02.836)
Ratrace

Shivani Lohia (49:11.092)
Yeah, so to those who profess 70, 90 hours, we laugh because I have a lot of my clients who are regular practitioners also. And, know, they usually message and saying, know, Shwani, I finished my work in three to four hours. The remaining hours, like all my deliverables are done. Remaining hours, what do I do? Like I have to be, you know, billing.

I have to show that I'm working. I'm like, okay, why don't you go around and help? You'll find, you know, these mentees, you can be just help them around because they don't have what you have the technology of your meditation and healing and just help them out. So that kind of starts giving meaning to life. The people who are running in that rat race that you were calling, you know, you were

saying in so many words. So that's a rat race, right? The idea of success. Firstly, the problem is we don't have our own personal definition of success. It's a borrowed definition. What the world is saying, what Instagram is saying, what's Facebook, if people still see Facebook, I don't know, or what YouTube is saying, defining success based on that. If you ask me, would you be a billionaire who has a poor family life?

Rohaan Kaul (50:16.153)
soon.

Shivani Lohia (50:37.225)
or a bad health, is that success? There has to be a balance. We know certain billionaires, they have terrible family life. They have had multiple divorces. Can you imagine their emotional mental state? It's not easy. Even if the person is not verbalizing it, it cannot humanly be possible that it doesn't affect them at some level. So firstly, we need to know what

Rohaan Kaul (50:41.709)
No.

Shivani Lohia (51:06.743)
defines success for us. For some, it is good health. And the person who's unhealthy, good health is success. For a person who's going through a difficult relationship, that relationship working out is success. For a person who has this emptiness in their life, service becomes success. So a life without meaning is just not successful, at least.

That's what I've seen people even who've been depressed once they start adding meaning to their life, it really helps them. So at work, these people who I'm talking about and they really talk once in their companies like vice presidents or directors of product and so on and so forth, some of the known names in the industry. And for them, it's like, okay, what do we do? We can finish if you have certain mentors.

level of mental clarity, you will be able to finish what others take eight hours or 10 hours into just a few hours. And if you see the countries outside, like if you see Scandinavian countries where the happiness quotient is so high, one of the things is this also that they have this balance. I'll work till five. I go out there, have a glass of wine with my friends.

Rohaan Kaul (52:11.939)
Bye.

Shivani Lohia (52:30.018)
then hang out with my children, play, have some sports, meet up with friends, make a nice dinner and then have it as a family together. Now, if we adopt that culture, then we would define that as success. So it is possible, but my first thing would be define success if...

Rohaan Kaul (52:48.944)
Great.

Shivani Lohia (52:54.27)
Only we define monetary success as success, it's a little lopsided. It is important. I'm not denying that money is an important tool. It is a resource which gives you a comfortable life, gives you time with your more family, for your health, et cetera. It's an important resource, but it is just that. It is a resource. It's not a defining factor for your worth, for yourself, and even it defines success also only to a certain degree.

I don't know if that answers your question because you had so many things, but yeah, I hope that helps.

Rohaan Kaul (53:28.621)
This about Scandinavian countries, example, it's actually, it's happened something really close to home for me in the sense that and I tell people that you you go to smaller places like know, hill stations or why you find joy and peace and tranquility over there is because of this reason because why I'm saying this is because I went to Goa

few years back, think so this is before the pandemic, I believe it was around 2015, 16 or 17, either of these three years and I had gone to a wine shop, a decent wine shop, not a shady man or this thing, like decent, proper, like a Madhuloka, this and family owned, probably they had two, three wine stores across Goa, right and

I around, I think it was close to 8 o'clock or something and he was like whatever you want to buy, it fast because 8 o'clock I will shut shop. am like I a customer and I you He said no. 8 o'clock means shop shuts down because by 9 o'clock the entire family sits and has dinner together. And the guy was very very clear on it. That it doesn't matter.

Shivani Lohia (54:49.388)
Wow.

Rohaan Kaul (54:54.315)
And he said this is a tradition that has been going on in this families like for second, like second, third generation that it doesn't matter. everybody, all the three shops, different family members sitting over there, everybody shuts it at eight o'clock. Now with that, like everybody has to be on the dinner table by night. Like they have the dinner together. Doesn't matter whatever it is. I think so that that is the reason why it shows up in the place also.

Shivani Lohia (55:17.74)
Lovely.

Rohaan Kaul (55:23.309)
Same thing happened when I went to Sikkim also. People say that there no work there. it's part of the culture also. And it shows in the people how they are happy with the simplest of things. how you talked about... Again, I don't travel too far to Scandinavia. We have an example in Bhutan.

measures their economy in terms of the gross happiness index not the GDP. So yes that's true that you you have to define

Shivani Lohia (56:03.296)
And they have defined what happiness is for them. The problem is only we are chasing someone else's idea of happiness, someone else's idea of success. The moment we are centered in our own personal definitions, like on morning in the mornings when I'm just, you know, sitting in silliness, I would review what would my productive day look like in my productive day? It includes my meditation practices. It includes my yoga.

Rohaan Kaul (56:06.285)
Getting.

Shivani Lohia (56:32.906)
It includes me spending time with my family, doing my healings, going out, maybe meeting a friend, catching up with somebody, catching up with my parents. And once I've defined that, now if somebody comes with say a flashy car or something, I'm like, Hey, I'm happy for you. That's your definition of success. And I'm happy with what I have. Do I aspire to have it? Can I get that? Of course. But do I have to work on their timeline? No.

I decide my timeline, define my happiness, my success. And that is a game changer. It took me quite a long time to get there. It's not like I was born with this wisdom. But after some time you realize like really, peace is...

Rohaan Kaul (57:18.1)
I mean that is what people don't realize that you are not born with this wisdom. It takes multiple life experiences.

Shivani Lohia (57:26.506)
Lot of falling down?

Rohaan Kaul (57:29.004)
Yes, very much true that it is and I think so again very interesting point. This is again when I went to astrology, this is your Dasha. This is exactly you know when people talk about your Antardasha, your Dasha periods. This is exactly what know astrology is all about like if that Dasha is the time where you have to take

those live experience because I went back and when I got deeper into this astrology also, I realized that there was something called Vimotsari Dasa which I had for 19 years, which was the phase which made me realize a lot of things in terms of context, wisdom, understanding came, but it came at a price that is not like there is they say that you know, there is something that comes along with that. But if you look

I tell these people that don't look at astrology from a pure prediction science. The prediction is the part where the interpreter adds to it. It is more about what has happened in your life or what is going to happen because there again, you said, energy planets have energies. There are a of things that are associated with that. Look at it from that perspective and it will help you.

sort things out like for example when I know there is a particular dasha or anything going on I will not take decisions I will not take decisions related to something right and I mean I don't want to get deep into this but there are a lot of things and incidents that have happened on a global context which we have predicted on the basis of the planet and everything like everybody if they know that this is the year of mercury which is the year of aggression impulsiveness and you can see it

all around in terms of our geopolitics, sports and everywhere. I'm not going to dig deep into that because it's going to stir a hornet's nest.

Shivani Lohia (59:33.306)
Astrology is a very legit science like you correctly said. The problem is how you take it. People want to what is my future like but that's not the purpose. I have a very good friend who's an active pranic healer. Been there in the school again for a very long time and when we discuss, we talk, she knows. Like I will tell her, I don't want to know when my time is going to be better. What is it trying to teach me?

Rohaan Kaul (59:42.613)
Validation.

Shivani Lohia (01:00:03.467)
Is it trying to teach me patience? I work on that. So I literally, you know, evaluate based whatever she tells me based on like I just take insights. What is it trying to possibly teach me and then work on that through my healing through learning lessons and and it's easier. Like, for example, if like you said, you know, there are times where your mind will not work better. It won't be able to take good decisions. So then I asked myself, OK,

use the, how do I use the golden rule, you know, the law of karma. If I want mental clarity, I bring mental clarity. So those are the times where I'll start teaching more. You know, so I use it like that. Or if I'll do more of the breathing exercises to remove the clouds, like they say, right, certain planets create illusions. So what the divine light can flush out those illusions. So I work towards that. It's just like you correctly said,

There are so many things that affect us, our energy field, our mindset, but just with looking at a different perspective, you know, it's like, you know, if somebody is looking in front and they're like, I see a wall and then somebody brings to you and they say, okay, look in this direction. And all of a sudden you see a window. So you have a different perspective and that's what can help us in moving forward, moving ahead.

Rohaan Kaul (01:01:11.362)
. .

Shivani Lohia (01:01:29.633)
and overcoming the so-called challenges. who's, you know, nobody who's ambitious is asking for an easy life, a straightforward life. And it's good to be ambitious. There's nothing wrong with ambition. It's about perception, your mindset, how you're perceiving challenges, how you're perceiving the so-called bad times, like you said, like very beautifully, like, hey.

This is a time, this is what I'm going to do, this is how going to plan it. And will things go, has it not happened that still things went wrong? You can plan all you want and after some days still it will go wrong because we learn with these so-called mistakes. You wouldn't have empathy, compassion for others if you had not seen some of those difficult times. It makes us human.

Rohaan Kaul (01:02:06.441)
Okay. you

Rohaan Kaul (01:02:28.233)
True. I think so the prediction part of it or why we want to believe in predictions or whatever has been happening in the past, it's basically validation. It's just validation for this thing. I think so I wrote this on my Instagram, one of the things that we basically take decisions and then we just it's all then everything after that is justification, like just trying to rationalize.

Shivani Lohia (01:02:38.979)
Hmm.

Shivani Lohia (01:02:55.566)
consummatory bias.

Rohaan Kaul (01:02:58.345)
That's true. So one more thing. Now let's get to the fun part. Do healers and people who are into meditation watch Netflix and Prime?

Shivani Lohia (01:03:09.336)
I watch.

Rohaan Kaul (01:03:18.812)
Right, so I wanted to bunk that myth that we are not talking about like, know, you have to switch that off.

Shivani Lohia (01:03:27.082)
yeah, sometimes when we gather together for our spiritual retreats, we are the noisiest of the lot. Because we having such a good time, the laughter will be loud, we'll be high in spirits, a different kind of spirits, we'll be loud, boisterous, like I love traveling, right? And I'm not a very big fan of watching TV.

but Netflix or Prime, but I do give company to my husband while I watch it. And I mean, I love to go out, meet people, all those that it's not to stop. In fact, like sometimes people are like, meditators, they shouldn't be drinking. They shouldn't be having knowledge. Says who?

Rohaan Kaul (01:04:20.466)
True, I mean... Yeah?

Shivani Lohia (01:04:22.235)
If it comes to you naturally that you do not and I know people that who really the meditation transformed them to the point that they're like this my I don't have the desire to say smoke anymore or take alcohol not because it is good or bad they were not labeling it the desire just wasn't there it's not at the same vibration

So be it. But otherwise, can somebody who likes to go party on a Saturday night, couple of glasses of wine, can they meditate? 100%. Nobody's stopping them.

Rohaan Kaul (01:04:59.4)
right in good big that myth also because you know there's a lot of about satvik lifestyle which is like you right you know so good on that part so what are you I mean reading or watching nowadays anything interesting that you like to tell our audience yeah I mean I'm telling everyone these are real books okay

Shivani Lohia (01:05:21.114)
I was...

Shivani Lohia (01:05:26.874)
And these aren't. See, now coming, I was coming to this point of what would I like to read or like to watch? Even as a kid, I loved reading self-help books. I did not enjoy fiction. I love certain movies. Like I love watching romantic comedies. That still stays. I love watching Marvel movies. I love watching animated movies. So Pixar is my favorite.

I have to watch the animated movies every now and then whenever they're out in the theaters. love doing that. Books, what I consume is usually more on the spiritual lines or somebody that's talking completely opposite to what I believe in. I like doing that every now and then because it gives me perspective. Otherwise I'm stuck with the ideas like.

It's very easy to be stuck with the ideas. Like you said, something as simple as Satvik. What is Satvik? For the longest time, I thought Satvik means waking up early, eating the vegetarian food only, you know, and all those things. But my Guru, the teacher, Master Chouakok, he said Satvik means having rhythm. Now, people who are super Satvik, they get rigid after some time. Come hail, come storm, my child is sick, but I will meditate.

Where's the spirituality in that? know, and tamas is considered as bad, but tamas is the thing which gives the stability. Only Rajas energy, Rajasic, like Rajasic is also not considered great, but Rajasic people are the ones who are bringing change in the world. Why are they any less spiritual than the person who is meditating? In fact, if you're just sitting and meditating in the Himalayas, bringing about no positive change in the world where people are suffering.

Rohaan Kaul (01:06:55.219)
So

Shivani Lohia (01:07:22.811)
How is that a great thing? Great. Wow. You evolved to a certain degree. then so when these things, these ideas were brought to me, they were like a shocker. You the mind goes in a shock like, oh, wow, like I didn't know this. You know, I was aiming to be sattvic when my natural energy might be Rajasic and I can use that to help people. It's just that Rajasic energies is misunderstood. Or again, the lack of knowledge of knowing that these are energies, these are certain

rhythms and all three are needed. Even if one is not properly there in a balanced way lopsided sattvic energies is also not good lopsided tamas is also not good lopsided rajasic energy is also not good. for me like I love going out having my cup of coffee with friends love traveling seeing new places

Rohaan Kaul (01:08:10.576)
But.

Shivani Lohia (01:08:21.721)
Yeah, watching animated movies. These are some things I've always enjoyed doing. So normal human with a lot of flaws also. Just empowered with tools to overcome those problems and flaws. That's all.

Rohaan Kaul (01:08:27.59)
Yes.

Rohaan Kaul (01:08:38.342)
So three, four book recommendations, anything that you would recommend people.

Shivani Lohia (01:08:41.339)
Wow, okay. I would definitely ask people to read one of the books by Master Chakoksi called Achieving Oneness with a Higher Soul, because people very loosely use this term, soul. They really have very minimal idea about it, and they should read it to get a different viewpoint. So one definitely that. Another book, which I

Rohaan Kaul (01:08:57.243)
Right.

Shivani Lohia (01:09:09.887)
really like is a path with heart by Jack Confield. He's a Buddhist psychologist, really good teacher. He really brings all the problems that a person may be going in their life, and especially if they're inclining towards a spiritual path, you you come across certain struggles which are real. And he really very compassionately, a very Buddhist way he really

brings that to the table and how do you be compassionate along with it, with yourself and with others. So these are some of, and for me also one of the books that has helped me learn about my own culture better is Hinduism Revealed again, like my favorite books are by Master Chua Koksi of course, but he really makes it so scientific that.

everything else. Like another author would say certain things in these many volumes of book and he would have covered it in a couple of paragraphs. like I said, I am a big fan of law of economy, minimum input, maximum output. then the psychologist, I don't know, I haven't read all of her books, she also, Julie Smith, she also writes really beautifully. Shreem is a very beautiful author.

Swami Rama again living with the Himalayan Masters, the author of that. Great teacher, very practical. If you see a good teacher, they'll be very practical and they'll not close you down. For me, is anything that closes me down is not helping me grow. So that's usually my criteria of picking.

books

Rohaan Kaul (01:11:07.333)
I mean I can relate with that because I think so we have had discussions on that religion, God and different schools of thought like it's not just the viewpoint that God exists but the whole idea that I believe that God exists is coming from a thought that I've read first about all the theories that say God does not exist. All right Shivani, it was wonderful to have you on our podcast today.

Shivani Lohia (01:11:27.952)
takes it.

Rohaan Kaul (01:11:35.896)
For people who want to know more maybe about meditation, how to get on the meditation spiritual guide or need any kind of help or if you are going through anything where you require any kind of healing we will drop Shivani's Instagram handle on the description of this video. You can get in touch with her directly or I mean

She is a wonderful person, very empathetic and she loves to help as you can make it out from the video itself. She will help you out with a lot of things and I can vouch for that because there are a lot of things that were unexplained in terms of my injuries, my pains and aches which have been resolved thanks to the pranic healing and what she has done.

So thank you Shivani, thank you once again for a lot of wisdom today. I mean, I can really say this was a session about a whole lot of wisdom on a lot of things that people are unaware of.

Shivani Lohia (01:12:43.6)
Thank you so much, Rohan. You, your team, you're doing really good work. And I see that transformation from when we first met and now. So I think you've done a great deal of self-work, which is our life all about. So brilliant. Thank you so much for this opportunity. yes, very happy to help. Very happy to be here. Grateful for this.

Rohaan Kaul (01:13:07.426)
Alright, alright, thank you, bye bye.